Wednesday, February 27, 2008
Requiem
Consider the future for each member of the family after Willy's suicide. What is the meaning of Happy's comments at the funeral? How about Linda's final words, "We're free...We're free..."? What does Biff mean when he says, "I know who I am, kid"? Discuss the way in which each member of the family will proceed with his/her life.
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Happy's comments kind of signify (to me) the way that he hasn't moved past the problems of his family yet. Everyone else has sort of admitted that everything has been lies and exaggerations, but Happy is still determined to be the best. (Even at the climax, he was still telling lies about his position and his future 'marriage', after everyone else has already recognized the lies).
I can't help but feel like Willy's death is a good thing for the Loman family. Biff and Happy seem to be on their own way, and could easily support Linda. Willy was holding them back, that's why Linda says she's "free."
Happy will probably stay where is he, just how he is. His words are always hollow, even what he said at the funeral about his father and his future sounded fake. He'll have to support Linda, and I'm guessing neither of them will be very thrilled with that. Biff might stay and help his mother as well, but it's just as likely if not more that he will leave to wander off once again. I could see him possibly settling down further down the road, however.
I'm really not sure what Linda's comment means, except maybe it's an ending to all the pressure and anger that was in the house. There would be no more arguing and it would finally be a peaceful setting. It couldn't have been easy for her to see him try to committ suicide everyday and live with that kind of man.
I really have no sympathy for the characters in this play. In fact, I didn't really like any of them either. They are all too stubborn to realize that they could fix their problems without much work. Willy could have gotten a job, but he was too proud to work for Charlie.
I also agree with Camille about Happy, because he is a compulsive liar, and everyone has realized it by then but him...
Linda's "we're free" comments cover a few different things... taken one way, it could just be financially. she payed the bills, got money from him (we assume) and they're out of the red. Also, they're free to live how they're actually living and admitting to their mistakes. They're able to actually be disliked by people and to do something other than sell themselves. I think, too, that she maybe she was just with him towards the end because she loved him and had to take care of him, but more like a nurse or mother, not a wife.
When Linda says "We're free....We'er free.." I think this signifies that a burden has been lifted off of the whole family.
The assignment is due in two weeks, fyi.
I agree with you Jared. Willy's death was a good thing for the Loman family.
It's saddening, but Linda seems almost emotionally free now that Willy is gone. She's put up with her grief and has been silent about it for so long that she probabley feels free from it.
Biff most likely just wants to prove that he's going to make something of his life. Sorta like how Happy said somewhere..."your death will not be in vain..." sorta thing.
Jared has a point. All of the Loman family have HUGE flaws. Linda bugs me the most though, because she allows herself to be trod over, and really doesn't have a backbone at all.
I know this is off topic, but I think that sad endings are lame. Although appreciated in small quantity, enough is enough. I think it's easier for author to find space at the end of the story for brillant speeches of emotion in a truly sad, dramatic moment. I feel it's more difficult for the characters to sincerely create a positive, inspirational moment in which to leave the reader. Yes, Charlie, I LIKE HAPPY ENDINGS! And there's nuttin you can do bout it!
Happy's character just brings up the past discussion about lying to protect someone. What's worse, making people suffer with the truth, or leading them on with lies? I personally think Happy crosses the line in order to please others in this way.
Name goes in name/url, btw.
Well.
I tend to believe that Happy is now feeling guilt for treating his father the way he did; for remaining entirely oblivious to his father's struggle during his life. Now that he has died, it has finally dawned on Happy as to what has really happened, and he is only now recognizing how noble his father was (to him at least). His anger comes from the fact that he no longer wants to live the hollow life he's lead... though, now, perhaps, he is still just saying things for the sake of saying them. Happy has seen that is life has been a fraud like his fathers, and now wants to have "vengence".
I think happy is the most committed of the family now because he want to continue his fathers dream, Biff is going to go do what he always wanted to do. And Linda is sad that now that they don’t have any major bills to pay Willy is dead.
I agree with Jared. I think Willy's death is a good thing for the Loman family. It sounds horrible to say, but their lives will be better spent not catering to his crazy needs. Linda is the one that is impacted the most. She has been battling his illness everyday and was probably sick of it. I'm not saying that she wanted him to die, I dont think that at all. But it was indeed a relief.
I think Linda, though upset about his death, is kind of at a resting point. Willy possibly killing himself was worrying her throughout the entire play and it just finally happened. I might be sad, but it's a relase of that worry.
Happy is just a younger version of Willy. He is lost in his own "Happy" world and can't get out of his massive denial. Linda is free of the lies that Willy created, her relization that Willy wasn't loved across the countryside allowed her to see the truth which set her free. Biff made that comment because he too is free of the lie. He knows what he truly is and knows that he cannot do the impossibe. Happy will probably endure the same fate and demensia as his father, that is, if he even settles down to begin with. Biff will try to live his life the best he can. It won't be sucessful but he will be happy. Linda's fate is undetemined but it can be infered she will live out the remainder of her years.
I also think that Willy was ready to die a long time ago...and that it would have been better for everyone if he would have made the decision to off himself way before. I know it sounds horrible, but the fact is he just drug it out, and made everyone else's lives (including his own) more miserable. At least then, his family wouldn't think that it was their fault for having an arguement with him.
Well, Ms. Sarah, I like depressing endings.
I think Linda is also indicating that the ENTIRE family is free; including Willy. Willy is now in "a better place" and is free from his earthly pains, Linda is free from Willy (a supressing force and constant worry), Biff is free to live the life he pleases now, and Happy...well he's always been kind of free.
The thing is, that 'suffering' for the truth, I think, is sometimes easier. It also depends on who is doing the lies and who is being affected by them. If i lie to myself, meh, whatever. It's my own dillusions. But once I take it to the level where my lies are influencing everyone else around me and shaping how they live their lives, that's when it gets bad.
Well... I know that Happy is a compulsive liar, but I think that he in some ways is the person that cares most in the family. He seems to have his own agenda, yes, but he always wanted to please his father, help his brother, and stop his father from being mean to his mother. I dont know why but I like happy the best.
Was I the only one who found it interesting the lack of detail about his death? We are to assume he dies in a car accident, but don't really see it. Does he die on impact? What did he run in to? So many questions...
Trina it seems you harbor a lot of resentment.
Sorry the comment at 10:11 was me, Texas.
I think, adding on to my other comment, it is a form of cowardice for the author to kill off, murder, or such and such his main character. OK, it's a tragedy, but look Willy. Some pity him, some think he's a scumbag, but now that he's dead, no body cacn REALLY be angry at him. (Now I'm on topic Billy) It's unfair to the reader because now we can't judge him in entirely, just as the dead guy who nobody came to his funeral.
Well i think, that Linda repeats "we're free" over and over again becasue she just stated earlier in her monologue that she had just paid off the mortgage. In ovther words, they now own the house, they aren't under the control of the bank anymore. It tells of how a burden has been lifted off the family. I think it pretty concrete what she means by it.
Jared, It's because his death is irrelevent, it dosen't matter how he died only that he did.
I 100% disagree with Trevor. I do not think that Happy is Willy in a younger form.
I think that Linda always sort of knew that he was full of lies... maybe not constantly, but I think that she always knew. Her reaction to the lack of people I don't think was so much shock, as it was disappointment and pity that he never achieved what he truly wanted because he was too set on what he truly wanted. (If that makes any sense).
i agree with Charlie on the Willy also being free now.
Well Jared, there are a ton of possibilites as to how he died. Not only does that bring up the issue of his suicide but of whether he would still wish to kill himself if his mind was more clear and he was less crazy.
Perhaps now the brothers will be forced to shape up so they can care for their mother...so that none of this will happen again. Perhaps Willy's death will ironically prove to put Biff and Happy finally up to his expectations...unfortunately just a little too late. ;)
Nini, how does he differ?
Trina needs to go watch Blade Trinity with Ryan Reynolds...
As for being on topic, the end was a bit of a let down for me. Nothing truly seems to be resolved. Sure, Willy's gone, but the sons are still dreaming beyond their scope and Linda doesn't realize that she has no one to support her if the boys go their sperate ways.
I only about 13% disagree with Logan's comment...
Biff's words "I know who I am, kid." (spoken to Happy) Indicate that Happy is only going to be fooling himself if he continues to think the Loman dream will continue with the "Loman Brothers" schtuff. Biff understands fully that he is not a salesman, businessman, or anything like that. Ultimately, he isn't good at much, but at least he can recognize this. I think he'll get by.
PS: I'm wicked hungry right now.
I think alot of people in here have a really twisted view of the Loman family. if you havent ever had to take care of someone who is psycologically distressed before, then dont say "i think Willy's death was good for the family". It is a realy sick thing to say becasue Willy was still a part of their family, and they still loved him, even in the state of mind he was in.
Trevor I actually agree with you, you're 100% right.
With Willy gone Biff can go do his own thing now. The pressure of his father will no longer be there.
Happy on the other hand (the people pleaser) is still trying to please Willy even after his death. By saying,"I'm not licked that easily. I'm staying right in this city, and I'm gonna beat this racket!"....."All right, boy. I'm gonna show you and everbody else that Willy Loman did not die in vain."
Jared... the death was a car death in a play. You can't really have too many details on a stage, unless you want to get a car, set up a wall, crash it into a wall, and suddenly do lots of gore make-up. It's not interesting in a deeper meaning, it makes sense. and I think that Happy isn't exactly like his father, but he deff. has been influenced and is leading the same life. Traveling salesmen weren't as prevalent there, so he was just doing the same thing his dad did in an updated style.
I don't know about that Owen. We can hope that is how the boys would react, but people are awfully set in their ways. Some people can make that change if they really truly want to though.
If I could tell you what to do with your comment on blade trinity on here I would! Instead I'll ask you to kindly shut your trap and be KIND!
again i agree with Charlie i to am very hungry.
LOL @ RACHAEL!!! OMG URSO FUNNY!!!
Well, to start out, Willy is 100% selfish. He only wanted Biff to succeed so that he could say that "HIS" son was the one that was the all star football player or what not. I think Happy lies becuase he wants to please. He is constantly seeking approval from other. Other than his brother Ben, Willy disregards all that everyone tells him. In my opinion he is an arrogant egotist.
Kindness is such a weakness, Trina. Anyway, it was just a suggestion. I thought it would make you feel better, especially after getting our whole class in trouble in Physics...
On the Nini vs. Trevor debate, I think the biggest difference between Happy and Willy is that Happy is always trying to please. He was never haughty like Willy in the way that Willy always thought he was right. Happy was the one groveling for attention, and Willy was the one on the petistool(sp?).
Happy is a disillusioned little man. Owen you must come to face the fact that Happy will not change!
Jared, i know no one in this room will ever accomplish as much as you will, or ever be as rich, or as smart, but i think for you to say that Biff and Happy are still "dreaming beyond their scope" it a little pathetic.
trina!!! is NOT me. Just to let Ms. Kretschmer know so she doesn't get ME as being the instigator or perpetrator! I'm being FRAMED I tell you!!
Logans right the death of a family member is never a good thing.
I agree with Logan's about him still being a part of the family.
I mean...I think if anyone was actually in that situation it would be different. It's like saying that you would do something...like walk away from an abusive husband or something...but it's probabley a lot differnet than when you're actually in the situation. People try to give you their advice, but when you haven't been there yourself, how really can you?
Comment at 10:17 was not me, sorry Trevor, I still disagree!
I must admit that Willy is self-centered, but what is amazing is that there are people like that everywhere. The story is believable.
Jared ur a dick
Kindness is not a weakness Jared, it is a strength and adversary that shows both kindness and mercy will sway the opposition of the opposition.
Jared, you are not coming up here!
I agree that it's easier to say you'd do something, but at the same time, the point of studying literature is to criticize the characters. And, by saying what they should or shouldn't have done, it makes it 9hopefully) easier for someone to actually do the right things when it comes time to do it.
All hail the great Jared who is wise beyond the greatest sage! I wish I were as amazing as him...If only...
Wait a minute, Willy is self-centered?
Mrs. K, i've left my 3 comments so i'm gonna drop the formality and type like i normally do online.
No offense Nini, but I really do agree with Trevor on this one. Happy is a salesman; he sells his lies all the time, telling people what they want to hear and constantly self promoting. he's selling himself, essentially, and he, like Willy is a womanizer. but that's just me.
very thoughtfully put trevor
Seriously, that is just inappropriate. Insult people as yourself at a different time.
Why thankyou, Jackson.
Logan, dreaming beyond their scope has nothing to do with me. I mean, they thought they were going to put on sport exhibitions and become famous. That is a little too fantastical. Plus, I've never said I would do better than anyone after school. To be perfectly honest, I've changed my idea about what to major in like 5 times. I have no more opinion on our futures than the fact that most of us in this class will be valauble parts of scoiety.
If somebody wants to write a comment like that, better be a man and fess up. Otherwise your comment is much lamer than what you wrote about Jared! When I talk to God, he'll hear about this!!! (He, He)
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