Thursday, February 7, 2008
What is a "personality" anyway?
Willy Loman seems preoccupied with being well liked. Why is this so important to him? He speaks of personality, but what is the difference between having a nice personality and being a good person? In addition, what value does he place on athleticism and physical build? How does this affect his family? Finally, how does his view of these qualities compare to ours today? Look at pages 33, 40, and 51 for a few examples.
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111 comments:
Just because you have a charismatic personality doesn't mean you're a good person (polititians...).
I agree with Owen
A personality is affected by how you act around your peers.
.(for my previous comment)
I think Willy is so preoccupied with being liked because it is a part of his job. He has a much better chance of making a sale if his clients like him and respecty him.
People always care about what others think of them. It's human nature to want to be well liked by everyone. In the end you have to decide whether you want to be your own person or not. It's more important that you like yourself, than if other people like you.
Why thank you, Mike
I think personality is the way someone acts when they're by themselves and then around others. Sometimes these can be different, but we like to relate ourselves to those whose are the same.
That's was a great comment Mike.
"Respecty"... Nice job Jared. I hate typing...
The whole identity Willy has revolves around his job, as a Salesman. The way that people view him dictates how much product he sells.
"Nice" and "good" are over-used phrases that people seem to misinterpret. I think that "nice" is more charming and people-pleasing, while "good" is helpful and actually benefits someone.
Personality is behavior pattern and thinking pattern unique to each individual. Willy's personality changes in the play from his flashbacks to present time.
Snapple fact: the Hummingbird is the only bird that can fly backwards.
No problem Owen...
Personality is skin-deep, being a good person is...person-deep. Anyone can put on a different personality, like a salesman has to do in order to sell his product. Being a good person, however, is much more significant that that. Willy Loman isn't really a good person; he places too much judgement in physical appearance (like the woman he cheats with, his own concern that he is fat, and the physical prowess of his sons) because physical appearance is what everyone sees. To him, it's an outward reflection of the personality he is trying to convey as a salesman. He cares about first impressions, because that's all he gets as a salesman, so his physical presence is more important. But that's just what I think.
Willy put to much value on athleticism and this causes his son to go into a profession Willy didn't like.Willy's preoccupied with being liked because he believes it will make him more money.
Just because he wants to make a good living off of his job, doesn't mean that he has to sacrifice good character. One can still be charismatic and a good person. it does consume him too much, but it's his own personality and character that drives him to make a bigger deal out of it.
I think it is possible that Willy valued athleticism too much. He seemed not all that concerned about Biff's grade as long as he was so well liked.
Being athletic has always been a status symbol. It just depends on what sport you play. Schools tend to revere their great athletes, and that hasn't changed since Willy's time. Just look at the number of athletic scholarships. It almost seems that you need a sport on your resume just to get recognition.
I'm sorry Sarah Privett. That last comment was by Texas.
Willy also wants to be proud of his sons, and wants others to envy them. They will bring him pride if they have athletic prowess and good builds and are a hit with all the girls. In the end though, he puts to much value in trying to make them perfect, and ends up pushing them away causing them to distance themselves from their father.
Just a question but how does Willy's regard to raising his children relate to personality? I'm not seing the connection...
I'd say a moral sacrifice is sometimes needed to succeed. Just look at lawyers. If they are hung up on whether they believe their own client, they'll never be able to convince a jury.
Willy seems quite obsessed with athleticism in those around him but not in himself (maybe because he lacks and lacked it in his youth as well).
In the flashback, he is always encouraging sports for his sons, and perhaps Happy is somewhat overweight and his father gets at him for it, so he always tries to impress that he's "losin' weight, pop!") Plus, there are his "anemic!" comments about the studios Bernard...
I think that Willy's personality is affected by who he's around. When he's around his boys he's playful and jokes around. When he's around other's (such as Charley or Linda) he's a little more serious.
I agree with Trina. I think in trying to make his sons "perfect" Willy has been a contributing factor to why Biff is lost.
If someone is a bad parent, then society automatically thinks of them as a bad person, and vice versa. If one only knows someone's kids, then they can just assume what the parents are like based on them.
In response to Sarah: Exactly, he doesn't care about Biff getting good grades, as is characterized by his treatment of Bernard. He cares much more about Biff being liked, and I think a large part of that comes from his desire for his son to become a salesman.
tI'm not really sure Rachael. I guess it's how he's trying to make them into himself...
The Sarah at 10:12 was actually Texas . .this is confusing . . .
i also agree with owen. Willy does seem to not care about his own athleticism.
I am sorry for the confusion. It was habit.
Honestly, i don't think that the sarahs have to worry about names getting mixed up. I don't read who commented, really.
I guess that makes sense...I'm just seriously not seeing the connection that they're making...like it's a good point...but what it has to do with personality...I dunno.
For my first comment:
i think that personality is how a person comes off to to other people, while character is how one acts alone. Willy's personality is very happy and upbeat most of the time, but when his affair is revealed through the flashback, the reader realizes that his character is flawed.
He seems preoccupied in being well like because I believe that it goes with his job. As a salesman it is important to be liked so that you can sell your merchandise. Which also leads to the fact that he puts much value in wealth and that wealth comes from his success in his job.
As for personality vs good person, I believe that a good person comes from the heart while a person with a fun or charming personality can be what people see but not what is inside that person.
Willy places the value of success for his children on thier athleticism. In one of Willy's flashbacks the reader sees how Willy could care less if Biff was failing classes as long as he was succeeding in sports. The reader also sees this in Happy who is constantly trying to lose weight and become more athletic and physically fit to please his father. Unfortunately for Happy, his father never really seems to care about Happy's success but only about Biff's. It seems to me that throught this Biff learns to place value in the wrong place and is so used to being successful in his father's eyes that when he fails, it is a disastrous blow to him.
These days I think that many people have those same values. I don't think that one can generalize and say how "people" feel these days becuase in this case I believe that it varies far too much from household to household.
When does one cross the line from the morally acceptable into the ethically reprehensible? Should you loo out for your well-being first and foremost? I think Willy may just be trying to survive in a world that has forgotten his kind.
Willy does care a bit about his own body. He punches a man for calling him a walrus or whatever and he is afraid he's getting a little pudgy. P.S.-Is there a way to turn off the stupid word verification?
"Look, not "loo." I think I need to get some more sleep...
OK Rach, so I think the correlation from his sons and his personality is that he keeps putting on another mask (personality) for his sons. It's difficult to tell if he really loves them, or if he's just trying to impress them and make them love him.
Well, character could also be how you treat others around you and how they are affected. Personality is just how you act and respond to other's "character."
That's a good point being made by Logan. Like what I said earlier...you want to be around peple whose character and personality are the same.
I believe it is all connected. Every person has his or her own connotations.
i don't think nini wrote enough.
Word verification is used to reduce spam on blog sites. As far as I know, there is no way to turn it off.
I think Willy has done a huge disservice to Happy, because he's so deranged when it comes to his weight.-"I lost weight, Pop, you notice?". This really shows that Willy's personality has rubbed off on his kids, and now Happy values his own appearance.
"I believe that a good person comes from the heart while a person with a fun or charming personality can be what people see but not what is inside that person." - I think that's really true, Nini.
omg..47 comments!!
I agree with whomever stated that Willy doesn't seem to care about his own athletic ability. In my opinion he wants his son to succeed in the athletic feild and not the acedemic because that is just the opposite of what he did.
ZOMG i luv u billy ur totally awsom wit ur snapplez factz!!! ROFL THEYR SO FUNNY!!!
I agree with Sarah. No matter how hard parents try, there is no guarantee they will actually be good parents with a positive affect on their children in every aspect.
To what nini said- just because he failed doesn't mean he doesn't care. i still thinks he cares, but like everything, he gives up and changes his mind after a minute.
Why are people concerned with their physical appearance anyway? I, as a member of the slightly overweight community, believe that life is too short to worry about what you eat and how that influences your appearence. I love food!
This would be alot better on a forum - no word verification, ability to quote others, more space, more options...
It's almost like Willy has pressured Biff to much, one of the main reason that Biff is lost and can't seem to find himself.
I agree with Sarah about Willy doing a disservice to Happy. Unfortunately you see many cases where that happens. One child is pinned as the smart or the pretty one while the other is the athletic or what not.
This is awful- but I cuoldn't resist QUOTE: "I think the worst time to have a heart attack is during a game of charades...or a game of fake heart attack. "
-- Demetri Martin
i don't think it's a horrible thing that happy cares about his appearance but his strong desire to impress his father isn't a good thing.
I am not entirely sure why people are so fixated on appearance, but it is a flaw of society that has not been overcome. It influences opinions and even some people's decisions.
Ya...Willy doesn't care about his son's academic achievement as long as he plays well in football, has scholarships to universities, and is well liked by his peers.
I kinda like this whole talking online thing. It makes it a lot easier than in class when you have to raise your hand.
So logan...Have you gone skiing lately?
To Camille's response: It's not that he doesn't care, but in some way it is. When a person gives up on succeeding, doesn't that lead to not caring about failing?
My name is Anonymous so I can leave any quote I want! Hah!
Yea Trina....or when everyone starts yelling at everyone. At least on here you can't yell!!
Anyone gone skiing lately or going to go?
I think it can Nini, but it is not always so. It depends on the person.
I think physical fixation goes back to the whole first impressions thing. (But I agree with brandon- Life's too short. Eat pie and brownies)
Anyone gone skiing lately or going to go?
To Nini- I don't think it leads to not caring, i think that it leads to bitterness a lot of the time, which in a way is caring.
to what nini said: just because he gave up doesn't mean he doesn't care about failing. He might still be disappointed with him self.
for my second comment:
I think it is funny when Bernard comes in to tell Biff that if he dosen't study math he is going to flunk. Normally a father would be concerned by that, but Willy would rather have Biff be well liked that get good grades in school.
Yea that really IS on topic Mike.
As to the question of whether appearance is as important in today's society, I'd have to say yes, definetly. However, there are many more important appearances than the physical ones that are stressed upon. Looking professional, educated, and intelligent is perhaps even more important than looking athletic was back then.
A first impression is hard to overcome. It is ridiculous how many good impressions it takes to make up for a bad first impression. Isn't society odd in that we take more notice to the bad than the good?
last time i went up i went with you mike.
Very true Sarah(Texas).
I like pie and brownies :)
Hey trina don't be mean to mike.
Jackson: I kinda agree. But once a person truely gives up and has no will to succeed, you still think that they care when they fail?
Texas: Well yeah, look at how much physical appearance even plays into the presidential race- a bad day for hair and makeup for hillary loses her votes, as well as her very poor choices in suit jackets. Seriously, though, the womans's dressed like a canary the past few days.
case and point: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/04/AR2008020401454.html
Hey Trina, you should read number 3 on our sheet because it says, "Don't worry if the discussion evolves to a larger topic or veers off course.." (Kretchmer). So I am just veering the discussion off course a little.
Works Cited
Kretschmer, Ali.(Feb. 7 2008): 7 Feb. 2008 .
for my third comment:
i thin kit is interesting how willy acts in the flashback towards his two boys. long befor the apartment buildings were constructed, he is very playful and in involved in Biff and Happy's lives. He seems to have a very free spirit, i think there is a cooralation between Willy's personality and his proximity to his surrounding.
To add to the previous comment I left...not only to I believe in not worrying about your physical appearence, I also believe in taking care of your body. You will live a happy, healthier life and you will have less stress. Do some yoga too. Gandhi did yoga.
You aren't even CLOSE to the topic though. You are talking about skiing instead of personality...but i guess that has something to do with it. Hahaha...yea NOPE!
Yes Texas, it's odd, but that is how it has always been. Think about the news, tabloids, etc. We as human beings think that it is much more entertaining to listen to tragedy over happiness. No one wants to read about Paris Hilton if she were normal and living a happy life (not that I understand why they want to read about someone else's life anyway).
i think its ironic that Happy was a success in Willy's eyes and Biff isn't. Yet it was Biff that Willy cared about and he didn't care about Happy.
Well part of the apartments may be how his own house is viewed. I think that almost everything can be reverted back to the status thing. A house with a nice yard and trees and distanced from others is seen as more valuable than a house sandwiched between apartment buildings.
I think that Willy just doesn't have a very strong fatherly personality. It's more of a defensive personality. He seems shy (as in the present) but good at covering his tracks (flashbacks). He seems altogether shady to me. But that's probably becuase he shows no loyalty (his affair) that makes me think lower of him.
Okay, I guess you are right. Well you are just disappointed that you don't ski because it is loads of fun.
Hey Mike, she also said, "I am more concerned that your responses to each other are thoughtful and mature," and "remember to keep comments mature, thoughtful, and relevant to the topic."
:)
Kretschmer, Ali.(Feb. 7 2008): 7 Feb. 2008 .
No. That's not the reason. I know that if i did ski I would end up killing myself. Anyways, back to Willy...
Brandon your the man, may I even say Ghandi-like. :)
Nice Owen.
Who's printing Gandhi quotes?!?!
That goes back to the bad impression though, Rachel. You have judged most of your opinion on him because of an action. Society wins again. It is amazing how decisions reflect on who you are.
Oh okay Owen.. I was just opening another topic so we all aren't confined to the one present by our teacher.
Well relevant to the topic...
Skiing is like Willy. It's free, has little boundaries, and...
Well anyways..I don't ski...I BOARD!!
To Charles: You are quite right about the presidential thing. There are also studies about the effect of a president's height, or how symmetrical there face is. That's why George Bush insisted on a raised platform for his podiums during debates with John Kerry.
Why thank you Billy! That's pretty much the best comment anyone can ever give me. I only wish I was like Gandhi...
I love yoga, and brownies- amybe if Willy would have done both he'd be happier *smiley face*
I love yoga, and brownies- amybe if Willy would have done both he'd be happier *smiley face*
wow we broke 100 comments
Hahaha...It was a good try Rachael. I understood what you were trying to say! I think everything has been said about Willy that can be said.
I think it shows his character though. He obviously has a low moral value to cheat on his wife. Or to regard his children as failures. Many people become depressed and have economic slumps, but not all go off with someone else. "It's his character that is flawed" (Logan's earlier comment.
Oh and it's RachAel
i think that since this bolg is about personality mike can talk about skiing; it affects his personality. Mike is a happier person when he skiis, just like Willy was a happier person earlier in his life. Nowdays Willy just complains about everything; his car, his family his job etc.
Sarah! That is an excellent comment! Yoga does clarify the mind and soul.
I love the movie 27 dresses. OMG =)
so rach you like to be confined to boundaries, and not able to express your self.
Look at all the time we spend on our vanity as a society. As long as we are viewed as having a good personality we are happy. How many people question or contradict a person saying good things about them?
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